Adam Cessna - Interview

(pictured is Adam and his wife Natalie)

In this interview, I had the chance to speak with Adam Cessna. He's an old friend of mine as well as one of the co-hosts of the "Listen to This One" podcast alongside another friend of the blog, David Mosley. Adam and I got to talk about his personal relationship with Christ, how being a husband and father has impacted his faith, and how his life has changed over the years. Hope you enjoy this one!

Ethan: If your 17-year old self had a time machine to see you today, would you be where you expected to be? In other words, when you were 17 did you think you would be married with a child at 24?

Adam: Yeah, actually. It's funny, I always wanted to get married when I was super young, which I did, but I thought I would meet the person I would marry when I was 18. Maybe you've experienced some of this, but there are some times when you meet someone and even if you're not dating, you could see that relationship carrying over. There was one person I thought that about, but it didn't work. As far as being married, I definitely expected to be married by 24, the age I am now. I probably wouldn't be extremely surprised to have a child. However, vocationally, what I do now would not at all be what I thought I would do back when I was 17. I anticipated becoming a professor or going into the ministry. Neither of those things happened, and I don't even really have a desire for those things anymore. Now I work at Classic Forms & Products. We sell promotional products, we do things with Exxon, Motiva, Lamar University, Harbor Hospice, etc. I'm an account manager but also a project manager. The reason for that is we are so small that I have to do a lot. However, really soon, I will become their graphic designer. I have no skills in that area, but they will actually be paying me to learn to eventually take that position, which is pretty cool. In my spare time, I've been learning Web Development from a thing called Treehouse. I was paying for that on my own to eventually leave this job.

Ethan: So you mentioned no longer having the desire to be a professor or pastor, did you resist that shift in interest or did you just realize you had no desire and change course?

Adam: I definitely resisted it. There were several times in my undergrad that I wanted to switch my degree. My undergrad was in philosophy, but I really wanted to switch to film. I had taken some film classes that I really enjoyed. I'm hoping to explore that a bit more once I have some more free time. I thought about switching to film, I thought about switching to computer science for something that seemed more practical as well. Not that I didn't enjoy philosophy, because I did and I learned a lot from those courses, but it was definitely a struggle. I didn't really decide that I didn't want to do it until my first year of marriage during my senior year. I had to decide if I was going to apply for seminary or some form of doctorate program for philosophy. I was behind on those things not because I was lazy, but because I really wasn't sure about what I wanted to do. In many talks with Natalie (Adam's Wife), I kind of realized that all my life I had been living for other people. In that, I was known as the godly, Christian good kid that didn't drink or party, but went to church and told people about God and stuff. Obviously, I didn't live perfectly in my life, but that's how people saw me. That's the ideal I had to uphold. Especially because early on in high school, that's what I told people that I wanted to do. I felt like there was a lot of expectation from family. They didn't put that on me, but that was my perception. I was really struggling with how to serve the church and not be in ministry. At that time, non-ministry serving seemed lesser to me, which I know is not true at all, but that was my perception. However, later on in life, I came to the realization that I don't HAVE to do that. It definitely was not the easiest shift though.

Ethan: You mentioned your classes and college experience, and I know you went to Liberty University, which is where my sister goes now. Also, Darrian Graves, pastor of Praise Young Adults and friend of the blog graduated from there. I've heard a lot of good things about Liberty. Is there a specific class or professor that particularly stands out in your memory?

There's a LOT. That's hard. I loved all my classes. I want to mention all of my professors. The Philosophy Department was just recently defunded, and there is no more Philosophy Department at Liberty University, so a lot of the professors I loved were let go. We were such a small program that you had the opportunity to get to know pretty much everyone involved in the program. All the professors were awesome and super godly, and I got to know all of them. The class that stuck out the most, probably, was Dr. Ed Martin, he taught a class on St. Augustine. When you read a lot of Augustine's work you can see that it's very philosophical and spiritual. He was a solid dude. We read his Confessions and a lot of other works by him. I ended up being Dr. Martin's TA for like 2 years. I grew really close to him. There was really a lot. Dr. Provonzola & Dr. Jones were two of the professors that were really good. Sorry, I'm just naming the entire department now. I really enjoyed it. Reading Augustine's Confessions was really good. I definitely recommend it. I think it's one of the first autobiographical things ever written. It focuses a lot on the sin he saw within himself, but it also focused on philosophy and spirituality of course. I was actually more interested in reading just about his life more than anything.

Ethan: Everything I've heard about Augustine is super awesome, but I haven't read his Confessions, so I will have to check that out. The philosopher that I find myself reading quite a bit is Søren Kierkegaard. When I was first diagnosed with depression, my therapist mentioned him a lot. Because he was a believer, but he also struggled with depression, so seeing a believer who clearly loved God, but still struggled with depression was really good for me.

So, I saw on your Instagram you have a collection of stories just called "good music", so as a fellow lover of music, I'm curious: are you more of a lyrics or music person?

Adam: That's hard. I think I'm more of a lyrics guy. Obviously, if a song has good musicality, I'll listen to it, but I do really appreciate lyrics. I like knowing what the song was written for, the driving force behind it, and what it's about. What I will sometimes do is just listen to an album, pull up the lyrics, and just read along with the song. Like, I won't be listening while doing something else because reading along immerses me more.

Ethan: I have to do that because half of my music is completely incomprehensible without it.

Adam: Yeah, It's probably necessary for metal. It's also good for me because I am really bad at quoting lyrics. I misquote lyrics very often. I'll hear something and get it completely wrong.

Ethan: With that in mind, could you give me a lyric from a secular song and a lyric from a spiritual song that sticks with you?

Adam: Yeah, I'll have to look it up, because I'll get it wrong, but yeah. There's this one song called "Suffering Servant" by The Modern Post, which is a side project of Dustin Kensrue. It says, 

"He offered up his soul to death

He poured it out till none was left

He died but now shall rise and surely see

The many he has righteous made

And satisfied, his work surveyed

The man of sorrows evermore shall be

On high, exalted, lifted up

The righteous servant raised above

His mighty hand shall work the will of God

The nations all shall hear and see

Astonished at his victory

The kings of men shall shut their mouths in awe"

That's how the song ends. Paired with the music, that part flows extremely well. I really enjoy that part of the song a lot. There's another song called "In The Aeroplane Over The Sea" by Neutral Milk Hotel. Crazy name, I know. The lyrics at the end of that song say:

"What a beautiful face

I have found in this place

That is circling all 'round the sun

And when we meet on a cloud

I'll be laughing out loud

I'll be laughing with everyone I see

Can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all"

It's very existential in its philosophical examination of the end of life. I really like the end of that song.

Ethan: It's very interesting that both of those deal with existentialism in sort of an "end of life" or "end of existence" viewpoint. I can't really say I'm surprised given your interest in philosophy, but it is interesting to see the similarities.

In the same vane of music, I wanna give you some pairs of bands/artists and you'll have to choose between the two that I give you, does that sound good?

Adam: Let's do it.

First: The Story So Far vs. Brand New

Brand New, definitely. They are classic. No question in my mind on that one.

Hot Mulligan vs Grouplove

Hot Mulligan, absolutely.

John Mark McMillan vs Ian Taylor

John Mark McMillan, I don't really know who Ian Taylor is. Wait! Yes, I know who you're talking about... yeah, still John Mark McMillan. 

Moving Mountains vs. Sharon Van Etten

Hmm... Moving Mountains, I think.

Josh White vs. McCafferty

Those are very different bands. I feel like there's some comparison between the others. McCafferty I think. It's very hard to compare them because there's very little to compare.

Old Grey vs. Wet

Old Grey, I like Wet, but Old Grey for sure.

Ethan: In the same vane of media, several weeks ago you tweeted, "Every time Avatar Roku brings down the Fire Temple, it gives me chills." is there any other piece of media that elicits that sort of reaction for you?

Adam: Yes, in Harry Potter whenever Sirius Black dies, that scene gives me chills. It didn't really give me chills, but the first movie I remember crying in was at the end of Return of the King when Frodo's like, "I'm leaving." I was super young, I don't know why it affected me that much. Also in The Matrix when Neo realizes he's The One, that always stands out in my memory. I like movies that give me chills, but I also like movies that make me sad.

Ethan: Avatar: The Last Airbender does that for me too. There are two episodes I always go back to. Both are in Book 3, and the first is "The Avatar and The Firelord" and I love that episode for the cinematography at the end. At the very end, when Zuko is talking to Iroh, Zuko is not the one in the prison cell, However, ever shot of Zuko is from inside the cell, so it appears like the bars are in front of him, and every shot on Iroh is from inside the cell, so there are no bars in front of him. Also, Zuko stands in the shadows and Iroh is the only one in the light. That's to emphasize how Zuko feels trapped in the life he's leading. The other episode is "Sozin's Comet: Part 2", I think. It's where Aang is on the back of the Lion Turtle communing with the past 4 avatars. He's conflicted about whether or not to kill Firelord Ozai. Roku just talks about his own regrets and how Aang must be decisive. Kyoshi is just like, "Yeah, kill him. Just do it" and that doesn't really help Aang. Kuruk talks about losing his wife and wishing he would have actively shaped his own destiny. Then Yang-Chen is the only one with the sales pitch to tell Aang what his duty as The Avatar is. I really like that. The entire show is amazing.

Adam: Yeah, Natalie and I are watching it right now. I used to watch it every Summer, but now Natalie and I were watching it. She really didn't want to when I first pitched the idea to her, but now she loves it. We just finished "The Avatar and the Firelord". I'm reminded how much I truly enjoy that show every time I see it.

Ethan: So in your and David Mosley's podcast "Listen To This One" you posited that you hate Halloween 'because it's stupid', do you find any other American or worldly traditions frivolous?

Adam: I mean, there's probably an argument for all of them being different kinds of frivolous. The celebratory ones at least. Yes, I do hate Halloween. I will never care much for it. Even as a kid, I thought it was silly. I think the takeaway here is that I'm not fun (laughs). This isn't something I loathe or hate, but my birthday is one. I don't really think about it. Natalie LOVES birthdays. She loves doing things and making birthdays big deals. So, I, as a husband, had to make a big adjustment to make a much larger effort on her birthday, because I would normally be comfortable with doing nothing on my own birthday. But Natalie is the person to want to do something because it's her birthday week, and that is so far removed from how I see birthdays. It's a good balance though.

Ethan: My buddy Travis does that, but he does it worse. He'll say things like, "It was my birthday two weeks ago." and I'm like, "Yeah, it's past, you're done. What you SHOULD say is that your birthday is 50 weeks from now. Quit living in the past." 

Here's my next question, jumping topic here: Have you experienced any unexpected difficulties in fatherhood? I know your experience is limited because Atticus is really young, but still.

Adam: Here is what I will say. I'm not going to say that fatherhood is easy, because it isn't. However, it has gone smoother than I thought it would, so that was a bit unexpected. I say the same thing about marriage. I'll say what the hard things are with the caveat that they are easy things for me to give up. When you get married, you lose a lot of freedom, then you have a kid and you lose even more freedom. Like, even planning this interview presented a small challenge. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to do this and I've had a great time so far, but my parent brain has to factor in that around 6 or 7 is when we start feeding him, then I'm the one that puts him down every night because he'll only go to sleep with me. Because, if Natalie tries to put him down, he'll keep trying to feed, and he doesn't need to feed that much. So, I have to be home by 8:30 if I'm out so I can put him down. Or maybe you wanna go hang out with the guys one night, well, one of you has to stay home, or you have to bring him wherever you go, or we have to find someone to watch him. There's a lot of freedoms you give up as a new parent. There's also a lot of really little things that pile up. For instance, I'm learning web development right now and Atticus always tries to get at my plug, so that's annoying. Most of the difficulty is in just adjusting to there being another human in the house. I'm sure there will be new difficulties when he starts forming thoughts and speaking and my job will change from just keeping him from dying. Again, it's gone smoother than I thought. It's been good. I like being a dad.

Ethan: You mentioned not being able to do as much, which might make this question a bit tougher to answer, but I asked David, so I was curious what you'd say: do you have any sort of "bucket list" style goals?

Adam: Yeah. I feel like my goals are changing all the time, which is probably not a good way to achieve them. I have a long-term goal that I would like to write a full feature-length script. Right now I just don't have the time to pour into that, but writing scripts was a part of the film classes I took that I really enjoyed, so I'd really like to do that at some point. Your goals change when you get married and have kids, so I'm thinking relatively short term. Like, in the next 3-4 years, we wanna be in a bigger house. I would like to have a higher-paying job. As far as a bucket list, I don't usually think that far ahead. In my experience, things change so quickly. I feel like I can be so interested in so many different things, too, so it can be hard. Like, what would some of yours be?

Ethan: Well, two of them are: I want to see The Great Wall of China in person at some point, which I feel is achievable.

Adam: Yes, that's achievable (laughs)

Ethan: The other one is that I want to go to an Oktoberfest in Sweden where all the Swedish Death Metal bands play. 

Adam: That sounds like a lot of fun. 

Ethan: Oh, it absolutely will be. Those aren't like Life Goals, but they are things that I've always wanted to do. They're both travel-oriented, which is really bad because I'm afraid of flying. So, I think my third goal is to get over my fear of flying.

Getting more into theology with this one, do you remember a time when you were younger when the Gospel or some other Core Theology clicked for you?

Adam: Yes. I was baptized young and I grew up in the church. I think it really clicked in high school. In high school, I went through a period of doubt. I wondered why I believed in the Christian God. I had friends who were Muslim, I had friends who were Atheists, etc. There were a few months that I didn't really know what I believed. I eventually read "The Reason for God" by Tim Keller. It's sort of an entry-level book, but I really enjoyed it. Reading that, I had never heard the Gospel spoken about that way. That really helped me.

Ethan: So, I know you, as a Christian, are unafraid to critique the Church maybe in smaller ways or somewhat larger ways, what's one thing you think the American Church focuses on too much and one thing they don't focus on enough?

Adam: Well, they definitely focus on politics too much. I think one thing they don't focus enough on is the fundamentals of doctrine. I'm not even talking about Calvinism vs Arminianism, I'm just talking about orthodoxy. Heresies come and go, but they always resurface. Even in people you and I know. Also in this sort of progressive movement of the Church, there's a lot of things being brought up as if they've never been brought up before as if there's never been an answer for them. C.S. Lewis had this term called "Chronological Snobbery" which is basically saying, "If something is old, it's not good, and if it's new, it's good." These things have already been discussed hundreds of years ago. Yes, we can see new things now, but I feel like so many say things and believe things without understanding the full picture.

Another thing that is strange to me, is that it seems that the 'enlightened' thing to say now is "I don't know" I was listening to this apologist, and she was saying, "Obviously there are things I can't know, but why are you afraid of having firm answers on things?" Such as substitutionary atonement, or the resurrection, or inerrancy, or whatever. I think there is enough evidence for each of those things to come to a pretty solid conclusion. So, you are either being lazy or you don't want to know the answer, because you know that it will require you to do something. It's so frustrating. I've seen many people that I know and care about step away into this space of "I don't know and that's ok". I'm not saying that I have everything figured out, but those theologies don't really lead to anything. 

There's also this discourse of disagreement. This idea that if I disagree with you that I hate you as a person. No, I don't hate you, I'm just challenging your idea. I should be able to do that and it shouldn't hurt you as a person. I know that I'm not my idea. 

Ethan: That happened a bit in my friend group. 4-5 years ago, the big discourse was Calvinism vs Arminianism and most of my Christian friends had at least heard of it and made some sort of opinion. So, when I mentioned things I didn't agree with, no matter which side I was talking about, someone would always angrily say, "Well that's what I believe!" and I'd always ask, "Why are you getting offended?"

Adam: Yeah. Even with those things, I think they can matter too much for some people. I believe you can be a faithful Christian and be either, so I don't know why it's so divisive to some people.

-END-

Thanks so much for reading this interview, I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, consider checking out some of the other interviews I've conducted. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Thanks again!