Carli Graves - Interview
What's something besides their faith that all great church leaders have in common?
I would say leadership. Their leadership is their influence. I actually just listened to a Leadership Lean In Podcast with Taylor Madu. Something that challenges me every single day I try to remember this is: are you being the kind of leader you would want to follow. I ask myself that all the time. At the end of the day. everyone has influence, either positive or negative. You have to decide every day which direction you will go, positive or negative. Yes, all church staff share their faith, but they all have influence as well. No matter their platform - it could be from the stage, from behind a computer, at a desk, while cleaning things - whatever they do, they have influence. At the end of the day, this all goes back to integrity. Everyone has a measure of integrity. That's why I say that ministry is not a job, it's a calling. If you're in ministry to get paid, you should probably get out of ministry. We all have leadership and our leadership takes a measure of integrity.
You’ve worn many different leadership hats, be it Small Group Leader, Worship leader, YTH Director, Preacher, etc. That makes me want to ask you what I’ve asked some other leaders, how has your experience as a LEADER helped you become a better FOLLOWER of Christ?
Oh man, I think being a leader makes me more of a servant, I think that's the most important thing for me personally. The message I preach is not my message, the small group I lead is not mine. It's all God's and I am just a "head servant" of those things. I think there is a difference between leading to own and leading to steward. I think it's important to check your heart before stepping into a leadership role. We don't gain anything except the knowledge that we have been obedient to God's command that we lead. Are people going to be lost when I step away from my small group? If so, then it's about me, not God. It needs to be about me leading people to Christ.
You’ve been working as Praise’s Youth Director for some time, and from what I’ve seen it seems to be a challenging but equally rewarding position. I wanted to ask, how has your position affected your walk with Christ?
That's a great question. I actually read Jimmy's Interview the other day and after every question, he said some version of "That's a good question" very funny. Now I feel like I can't say that's a good question, haha. No, but that is actually a good question.
I think, honestly, seeing youth pursue Jesus challenges me to pursue Jesus more. I think that as a leader you always need to be two steps ahead. Whether that is in your actual plan or spiritually. That can be tough when you may be in a season in your life that is stunting your spiritual growth. However, seeing youth passionately running after Jesus inspires me to do the same. I came up through this ministry. I was an intern my 12th-grade year, I did all the things. To look back and see 12th-grade me so passionate for Jesus with no incentives, that challenges me. Because I see the same person in the 8th-graders and 12th-graders that come through our doors on Wednesday. That, I think, is what God means when he says child-like faith. That doesn't exclude adults, 22-year old Carli should be able to go back to the foundation of her faith at 18 and before. That challenges me most about working in ministry.
You talk about being inspired by youth, and that brings me to this question: I went back and listened to several of your sermons, and in your sermons “The Race Set Out Before Us” from June 2019 and “Ya Fake” from July 2020 you talk about the downsides of big services like Winter Retreat and Summer Camp because they can lead to burnout in your spiritual marathon or the spiritual high might not extend past camp so you could end up “leaving your faith there” and that brought up a question: What do you think is the best way to approach these bigger services to avoid those forms of backsliding?
Honestly, this might sound like cheesy Christianese, but it's a daily devotion to God. Appreciate the big events and experience Jesus there, but do not leave him there. I think we, as Christians, need to become better disciples of the Word rather than people who just experience Christ at a service. Jimmy always says "it's not a moment, it's momentum." In our daily devotion, that's when we begin to see this longevity of our faith happen.
Anyone perusing your Instagram can see that you’ve traveled a bit, NYC, California, Australia, the Caribbean, etc. so that makes me curious: do you have a travel destination at the top of your list that you haven’t already been to?
Oh, absolutely! I have begged Darrian to take me to Italy. I love pasta, I love wine (in moderation, readers), I love the coast and the beach. We went to the Caribbean for our honeymoon and Darrian got sucked into booking another Caribbean trip, later on, so now our Europe trip needs to be pushed back. I know, first world problems. One day we will be in Italy and all the world will know.
What book, other than the Bible, do you think has helped you the most?
Oh, dude. I have a few staple books that I recommend to people that are new in their faith. One of those is "Sun Standstill" by Steven Furtick that I read when I was a senior in High School. It's so counter-cultural and awesome. It makes you feel emboldened and strong, and I think it is a very good book for people who are starting out their faith and need that boldness. For someone who is further along, A.W. Tozer will wreck your mind. I have read "Knowledge of the Holy" about four times and I still don't understand it, and that's why I love it so much. Somehow he is able to teach on things that we only could know when we get to Heaven. It's so mind-blowing and enticing. You can read it about 80,000 different times and get something new each time. There's also a book called Christine Caine called, "Unashamed"
You and I have been working together at Praise for some time now. I actually look back and found Student Takeover in 2016 and you were leading worship and I was video directing for the first time. That was also the Sunday that you shared your "Broken Vessels" story. I know that was not your very first time leading, but did 2016 "Worship Leader Carli" think she was going to become 2020 "Ministry formerly known as FOUR12 director Carli"?
Absolutely not. 2016 Carli thought she was going to move to Los Angeles to dance. I think I just had my own dreams. I think that God's plans were better than my dreams. It wasn't until those dreams started to fall away, thereby forcing me to rely on God that I realized his plans are better. I felt him tell me that if I went for what I wanted, then I would settle. As I pursued God more, my dreams became his dreams. I was able to live out that dream. I moved to Australia to go to Hillsong College. After a bit, I came home for Winter Break, but it was Australia's Summer Break because the seasons are swapped. All I had was a suitcase with some winter clothes. I was planning to stay for three weeks. But, I got home and God told me to stay. There was no job lined up. I worked at Dillard's for two months. I started serving as the youth 7th-grade small group leader. Then in March, God opened a door, now I do what I do. All because I decided God's plan was better than mine.
So, I can't interview Carli Graves without bringing up dance at some point.
You literally can't. I would be disrespected if there were no dance-related questions. Dance is so important to me, I'm literally gonna go teach a dance class as soon as this interview is done.
Well, disrespecting you is not at all what I am to do. I know you’ve held a few performance-based positions throughout your life and two of those have been dancer and singer, is there any difference to you personally, worshipping through word vs dance?
No. I think both are for the Lord. When you look at it like that, it's all pure worship. When I dance, I connect with Jesus, the same as when I sing. It's not just song and dance, it's your work, your conversations, your everything is an expression to Jesus, or it should be anyway. Dance in worship doesn't have to be weird. I know it can weird people out, but it doesn't have to. I think it's how you go about it. I've seen it get weird. I'm not gonna dance with my eyes closed because I will fall. I need to be able to see where I am going. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a streamer or flag, but it's the heart and intention behind it. That can make it pure or weird. I think a congregation has to be open to receive that type of worship. I've danced in worship a couple of times, usually in the back. It's always when I feel an urge from the Holy Spirit. God asks me to do it, then it's not weird but obedient.
Have you figured out which food you’re going to introduce Darrian to next?
This past week, we have been eating pretty healthy. One of the days, we had a Chicken Caesar Salad with Smoked Salmon, which Darrian said was the best meal I had made that week. I don't know if that's a jab at all the other meals... I think Brussel Sprouts is the next vegetable we're gonna go for.
So, back in April, you preached a sermon called “Renovated Worship” and at the top, you mentioned that you played a major role in renovating what was once Darrian’s apartment, but now both of yours’. That makes me wonder, from an interior design and just a general aesthetic standpoint, has there ever been a color that you have just hated regardless of context?
Oh gosh. So, when I was younger, my Mom, love her to death, painted my room this deep prune purple. Then we put this zebra border on the wall. Ever since then, I do not like purple. If you look around this house, you will see no purple. That is because I hate the color purple. I know there is a movie called "The Color Purple" and I have not seen it solely out of principle.
This may seem like a somewhat basic question, but is there a Bible Verse that has always stuck with you?
Oh, whoa. Can I say the entire Bible? Haha. I always come back to "Remain in me and I will remain in you," I think that's in John. It describes a relationship with Jesus so effectively. It's a two-way street. I sometimes forget that it is a relationship. It should not just be asking God for things. We should ask how we can serve.
So, I know you talked for a long time about getting a dog, is Oakland everything you hoped for?
Listen, he is so chill. He can't even hold his head up because he cannot be bothered. Darrian loves him secretly even though he would never say it out loud. Oakland is amazing. He loves car rides, laying around, and sleeping. I can vibe with that. We rescued him from a shelter, and I didn't even see a picture of him before I decided he was the one. Darrian had all these criteria it needed to meet, and I just knew this dog was perfect.
I’ve asked this question to every one of my female friends that I’ve gotten the opportunity to interview, so I wanted to see how you weighed in: we live in a time in history where the very tenets of masculinity and femininity are more hotly debated than ever before, so I wanted to ask: How has your experience as a Christian Woman been affected by the current culture?
Frankly, I think this whole cultural feminist movement is a little far out based on my Christian beliefs. Now, if you are not a Christian, I have nothing to say because this is all based on my Christian beliefs. I think God created a male and a female for two different reasons. How I try to explain it to my youth is that a man can bring a strength that a woman cannot. People who are very pro-feminism will likely shudder at that sentence. However, I think a woman can bring a beauty, not the outward appearance, but an inward beauty, that a man cannot. I think more of one than the other will lead to an imbalance. I think those can pair together to do well. I think it would be cool to see women be able to take on greater roles. Like, a woman president would be cool to see. I think that God has designed and hardwired a man to be a man and a woman to be a woman. I think that was his intention. They complement each other and take very important roles. There are things that Darrian cannot understand that I can step in and speak to. However, when a teenage boy comes to me with certain issues, I can't empathize with that. That's where Darrian steps in. I think Jesus loves women. I think it's significant that the first people at the Tomb were women. I think it's significant that Jesus chose to lift up women. I think both are important. American Culture could have it wrong. This is all through my lens of Christianity.
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Thanks so much for reading this interview. If you enjoyed it, consider checking out one of my other interviews and share the ones you like on your social media. As one of my favorite interviewers, Brian W. Foster says, "Don't forget to love each other". I hope you have a lovely remainder of your day. See you next time.
