Jimmy Banks - Interview

 

In this interview, I had the amazing opportunity to interview the one and only Jimmy Banks. He's a youth pastor who has worked at several churches throughout his professional career, and he's been leading Praise Church's youth group for over 7 years now. We talked over his influences in preaching, how fatherhood has impacted his leadership, and his own personal walk with Christ. I've known Jimmy for a while, and I've wanted to interview him since I started this project. It was a ton of fun for both of us, I hope you enjoy it!

I've heard you talk about this kind of thing before, but I wanted to just see what your snap reaction would be to this question: what book, other than the Bible, do you think has helped you the most?

That's a good question. I see that in everyone else's interviews, so I wanted to say that. I want to be clear at the top of this interview (leans in really close to the mic) these are all good questions. You know me, I love to read. So, I would quickly say A.W. Tozer's "Knowledge of the Holy", with a close 2nd being Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life"/The Updated "What on Earth am I Here For?" I do both of those books once a year, and I build them into the internship program. Tozer's "Knowledge of the Holy" is so powerful. That line, "What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." is so impacting.

I can remember a time when you began to implement that idea into your messages a lot more, did reading that book immediately start that pattern of sermon inclusion, or did it happen because of something else?

(leaning really close to the mic) Good question. Hahaha, yeah honestly though. It was able to put verbage to what I had tried to communicate before, and it communicated it well, so I decided to jump on that train and run with it. Tozer had such an experiential understanding of God, not sacrificing his knowledge or relationship, but finding a balance. Meanwhile my background is from a polar opposite. I came from a church that was all about experience and emotion, and it was very unbalanced. Then a high school I attended was very knowledge-based. They were so knowledge-based that they penalized emotion. I got detentions for dancing, literally. I've always had the heart for saying that there should be a balance between emotion and understanding. High Knowledge High Response. That was something Tozer put words to and I just ran with it.

I know you were also gifted one of A.W. Tozer's personal bibles, did any of the ancillary notes he included give you a better understanding of his writing?

What a cool moment, by the way, to be gifted one of his personal bibles. It's not a relic, I don't sleep with it under my pillow or anything like that, it's just kinda cool. It happens to be a copy of 1 Samuel, and that's all it is. It's a little pocket Bible. When I flipped through it, he put crosses in the margins next to verses that pointed to Jesus. The entire scripture points to Christ. That made me love and trust his works even more to see the care he put into his personal walk. You could see that he was looking for Christ in every area of the scriptures. 

You mentioned the sort of dichotomous upbringing with one side being all about emotion and one side being all about knowledge. Keeping that upbringing in mind, if Jimmy in High School could see you now, what would they think?

I would say where I am is beyond what I saw for myself at 36. I always knew I wanted to be in ministry. I didn't care where I would go and I knew God was calling me to serve the church. I wouldn't be surprised that I was a pastor, I would be surprised that I was a youth pastor for a non-denominational church church and I would be surprised by the lifestyle decisions I'm currently making. High School Jimmy was probably a little bit more moralistic, righteousness under the law. That was the extent of my understanding, my love for God was more conservative in my moralistic choices than it is now. Whereas now I see under grace and the new testament. High School Jimmy would probably see me and say, "Wow, you do THAT, bro? So, you're like a sinner." I definitely would have seen myself in ministry though. 

While we're talking about your upbringing, that brings me to this question: you're from Pennsylvania, your wife is from California, y'all met in Missouri, y'all live in Texas, why Alabama?

Hahaha, many people ask me this. My grandparents owned a farm in Jasper, Alabama. My grandfather enlisted in the military and got stationed in New Jersey, he met a girl there and married her, and then they moved to Pennsylvania. My grandfather ended up moving to Pennsylvania and that's where he raised my father and that's where my father raised me. We would always go back to the farm in Alabama where they had a lake house. Unfortunately, my grandfather passed away before I could meet him, so his brother, Ben, became my grandfather. So, he's my Uncle Ben, which I love to make reference to, that's why I love Spider-Man. With great power comes great responsibility, make sure that makes it into the transcript, haha. We would go to an Alabama football game every year, and I continue that trend. I go to an Alabama football game every year, and I've only missed a few years so far. Since 1989. Uncle Ben and Aunt Zelda - You like Zelda! Cheers! I know nothing about Zelda, sorry I'm getting off track. That's the reason I love Alabama so much. 

Well, you inadvertently answered another one of my questions which was: Why do you like Spider-Man so much?

I'll answer that more fully, cuz it's a great question. I had an Uncle Ben which worked into it. I've always been driven to things that are deeper than surface level. So you have Spider-Man but he's attached to this line, "With great power comes great responsibility" don't tell me that line isn't money! Can you think of any other super popular superhero that has a tagline like that? I can't think of any. That's why I love him. He's a young kid, a majority of his canon is when he's high school/ college age, and I love that. 

There's a reason that he has so many reboots, people love him. 

Can I turn the tables here? What's your favorite Spider-Man movie? I just want to hear that from you. 

My favorite Spider-Man movie has a really weird reason behind it.

If you say Tobey MacGuire, turn the interview off, we're done.

It's not, I don't really like those movies that much. 

I hate them. 

I think my favorite one is, well, Tom Holland is pretty good, but just based on how old I was when I saw it and the circumstances surrounding it, my favorite is The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

Yeah, that's the wrong answer. "Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse"I can watch that thing every other week. 

It is really good, the only reason I like Amazing Spider-Man 2 more is partially because of you. We saw it in theaters and you were present for the best and worst thing I've ever seen happen. You weren't the person that did this, but we all laugh at this. Casey Rucker and I had been talking about the events of the comics and speculating about what may or may not happen in the movie and I think he forgot that not everyone knows what happens in the comics. Right before the movie started, like right as the Marvel intro was going, Casey leans over to Matt Muller and says, "So, what do you think is gonna happen when Gwen Stacy dies?" and Matt goes, "WHAT?!" and I remember thinking, "Oh no, that's so unfortunate." That core memory is what elevates that movie for me. 

But yeah, I knew that Alabama and Spider-Man had to make it into a Jimmy Banks interview

You honor me, sir

While we're talking about entertainment and sports and stuff, I know you're also a fan of basketball, do you think there's a team that deserves more recognition?

The unfortunate thing is, some of these markets get the best players because some of the perks are getting to live in Los Angeles. I think a team that deserves more recognition, and I'm not just playing to my audience here, I genuinely believe this, is the Spurs. They have such a small market, but they have great people like Coach Pop (Gregg Popovich), phenomenal coach. They have been able to be so successful with such a small market. I remember them back in the day, I loved Tim Duncan, the Big Fundamental. I used to love David Robinson, The Admiral. Manu Ginóbli, Tony Parker. That whole era and it lasted for like a decade. It was pretty awesome. 

Switching gears back to theology, when you think on all the different theological topics (Eschatology, Apologetics, Pneumatology, etc.), when you think on all those different areas of study, is there one that is a favorite or at least one you find yourself fixating on more than others?

I've always loved just basic fundamental theology. I've always looked at it as, I know I could learn more if I were to delve into specific areas of theology, such as Old Testament stuff like the Nephilim or other things like that. I've always loves basic theology because 1 Timothy Chapter 1, written by Paul to Timothy. Timothy is this 30-year old leader in the church, which was super young compared to a Rabbi. The idea of having this young leader was a big deal. That's why you get this conversation of 1 Timothy 4:12 "Don't let anyone look down on you because you're young..." The Book of Timothy is like a leadership manual. It's not like the Gospels, the Gospels are a prerequisite for The Book of Timothy, like you should already have your basics done to really get into Timothy. Right in the beginning of the book, Paul says, "I don't want you to fall into trying to understand everything, I want you to focus on the stewardship that comes from obedience to the things you have been taught." I love that. Helping people try to master the basics rather than trying to understand everything is pretty key for me. For the youth ministry we built a little curriculum called "The Irreducible Minimums of Faith" and that's all I preach, I don't go outside of that. It takes about 4 years to get through everything listed in that curriculum. I'm just trying to lay a good foundation and go deeper and deeper and deeper in my understanding of basic theology. Here's the exact verse I was talking about, I have it on YouVersion, but this is not sponsored by Craig Groeschel. If you wanna be a sponsor, Craig, call us, or call Ethan rather. Here's the verse, 1 Timothy 1:3-6 "As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions." So, there's a lot to learn because we have the full canon of Scripture. So, I believe we really need to press into that "stewardship from God that is by faith" before we even attempt to understand much else. Does that answer your question?

It does! You talk about the "Irreducible Minimums" and that made me ponder back to all the messages I've heard you give, and the only time you've ever talked about ancillary content, like Eschatology, has been outside of a regular service, like that one time you did an eschatology talk upstairs at the Walker building in between Sunday Services. It actually makes me think of something Darrian told me in his interview. He was saying, "People want me to talk about different topics like Calvinism vs. Armenianism or whatever, and you couldn't even begin to do that topic justice in 35 minutes."

Yeah, definitely. 

So, you're actually one of the first parents I've interviewed, so I wanted to ask this: do you think being a parent has led you to different revelations about leading a church or does the inspiration go the other way around?

Oh, wow. First off, shoutout to my Lady Pack: My daughters Kate, Riley, and Maggie, led by the one and only Heather, my beautiful wife! I've got a lot of ladies in my life. My children have shaped my view of God that is incredibly hard to communicate. It's that parental love for my children. It makes me think that I am imperfect, yet I have this immeasurable amount of love for my children, how much more does our perfect father love and want to protect us? As far as leading, I naturally err on the side of grace more when leading the church, but having children has reminded me how truth is there to serve you and to help you. Because I love my children, I tell them, "You can't do that, because that'll destroy you." It's really helped me to be more confident in my teaching of sin, and my teaching against selfishness, and my teaching against anything that is harmful. If you remember, I've taught this a few times, and I got it from Tim Keller, freedom is not the absence of restraints, but living within the right ones. 

Yeah, when you have the fish bowl onstage and then you flop the fish out of the water and everyone freaks out. 

I love that, we do it every year. It's lived every time, We don't know the cognitive damage that's done to it's little brain. Maybe we're making it live with anxiety the rest of its life. It needs a therapist, maybe. 

For like, 7 minutes before it forgets the whole thing. 

That sort of stuff is me trying to communicate the heaviness of that side of stuff which absolutely has changed the way I teach and preach. 

Speaking of your preaching and teaching, I have handled a lot of your content as its related to broadcast needs like screens content, but that's pretty close to the end stage. Can you walk me through how a sermon gets from an idea to the stage?

Absolutely! I love to teach God's word. Where do you want me to start? I was born in 1984, no I'm just kidding, I think I know what you mean. So, like I said, we created this document called "The Irreducible Minimums" it's a document that I have, I'll sometimes share it with other Youth Pastors. Once that gets written, then the idea begins by saying, "What haven't I taught in a while, what do I need to teach, where am I at in the cycle of teaching things?" We pick one out of there. We kind of have some filters that determine when we do stuff. We always start the year off with "Show Your True Colors" which is all about living a missional lifestyle. So, once we decide where we're coming from, we'll see if there's a fresh package we need to put on top of it. Like, if one time I taught on worldview, which I remember teaching on whenever you were in youth group and it was called "Restoration" and I used the C.S. Lewis quote, "I believe in Christ as I believe that the sun has risen. Not because I see it, but by it I see everything else"I think the last time I taught about worldview it was called "A Whole New World" and we got to do some fun things with Disney motifs and stuff. Once we get there, then it's the process of saying, "Ok, how many weeks do we want this sermon series to be? How does it fit into the calendar?" and then I start doing research. Research, to me, is like a research paper. I'll spend two full days looking at what I preach on last time, how have I grown in my understanding of it since then? So two full days of research which would probably amount to about 14-16 hours. That's just watching other sermons, reading Bible commentaries, obviously reading relevant scripture and exploring its context. I will throw everything I can onto a research document. So, I have a research document for every sermon series. Some sermon series can have documents up to 15 pages long. There was even one that had 70 pages of just research. I didn't use like 50 of those pages in my sermon. That's what I call 'research' which happens about 1 month in advance. Then the week of the sermon, which starts on Thursday, because I would be preaching the next Wednesday, I will spend Thursday outlining a sermon, Monday will be spent filling in that outline, Tuesday by noon is when the sermon is completely done and notes are submitted to you guys to do your magic on the screens. It really helps me to space it out like that. There's so much nuance in how I craft a sermon. Another important note is that I build a sermon with truth first and application second. I will write a full sermon that has literally zero application, just truth. Then, I figure out how to communicate that to a teenager. 

You mentioned Rick Warren and A.W. Tozer's books and you also have mentioned Rick Warren's sermon aimed at pastors that you watch every couple months; with that in mind, do you have a favorite sermon you've heard, excluding your own or any you've heard at Praise?

Judah Smith has one that they made a Sermon Jam out of. The Sermon Jam is called "Jesus is loving Barabbas" and he drops the hammer by saying: "I'm Barabbas" come on, that's so good. One of the most beautiful sermons ever, in my opinion. 

I remember first hearing that Sermon Jam at Winter Retreat 2016, back when I was a senior in High School. 

So good, so good. That whole idea of "I'm Barabbas" is so powerful. Come to think of it, Mark Gibson, just the other week, conveyed that same idea when he was teaching out of the book of John, and I don't even know if he's seen that Sermon Jam. So, the Judah Smith Barabbas sermon, thenm honestly, more recently, Nathan Finochio, he is one of the Hillsong teaching pastors. I know Hillsong can sometimes get a rep for being just music and emotion-driven, but this guy is one of the most brilliant I've ever heard. He's in charge of training up their pastors to be theologically accurate. He's incredible from what I know, because I've only been on this train for a couple months now. Anyway, he spoke at Elevation's Youth Conference this Summer. He preached a sermon titled "Grace and Sin", that's the whole title. He just sits in a chair and says, "Throw a scripture up." and just explains where it's from and what it's about on the spot. It's this perfect mix, because a teenager would love it because his applications were on point, but it was so deep at the same time. That's what really amazing youth ministry looks like to me. I prayerfully hope that people think of Praise Youth that way. That they would look at us and say, "I thought you guys were all hype, just light and music and big crowds or whatever, but when I got here I saw that you guys preach 40-minute sermons" (because I have a 35-minute preach clock and I always go over) We're not built on giving away X-Boxes and TV's like maybe some other youth ministries might, we give away journals and Bibles. There's this hunger and depth, but also this joy that is so inherent in our environment.

I know you're never really one to sound your own horn (or giant megaphone, as it were), but I still want to ask: do you have a favorite sermon that you've given?

That's good, hmm. I do have messages that I'm passionate about. I watch every sermon I preach shortly after it's done, maybe a couple hours later or the next day. I do that because I want to make sure I've communicated everything in a way that's easy to understand and I want to perfect the art of teaching and stuff like that. There have been plenty of times that I will watch a sermon and think, "How did I do that?" it leads me to always thank God for blessing me with the words to say in that moment and perfecting my gift. There's a phrase that's attributed to Augustine that says, "Work like it depends on you, pray like it depends on God." So, every time before I go onstage, I take a deep breath and I basically pray, "God, you put the breath in my lungs, now I'm about to use that breath to teach about you." At that point, I've done everything possible to prepare. So then I let God move. That had nothing to do with your question, (leans close to the mic) It was a great question, by the way *laughs* Anyway, I would say, "Small Acts of Faith in the Hands of a Big God" is one that constantly comes back. Also, I've probably preached Galatians 5 70 different times from 70 different angles. I'm gonna change my answer, scrub everything I just said- Galatians 5. I've taught it at Winter Retreat in a sermon called "Free for Freedom", then the book ends with the Fruit of the Spirit which I just taught at Youth Conference, then it also talks about "Walking in step with The Spirit" which I have taught on before. I'll finally say, after ranting for 20 minutes, that my favorite sermon I've given is "Free for Freedom" from Winter Retreat.

So, while we're talking about Winter Retreat- you've been to a lot of bigger faith-centric events where it be seeing Hillsong live, or Winter Retreat, maybe back when we used to do Student Life camp- when you think on all of those bigger services that are actively trying to be bigger, is there one that stands out in your memory? This can be done by Praise or otherwise.

Do you want me to answer as Jimmy the Human or Jimmy the Pastor?

¿Porqué no los dos?

I don't speak Spanish.

Why not both?

Ok, cuz I think this will be a fun one for the fans, I don't know who all reads, but this is for the fans. You may have to Google this to even know what I'm talking about, but when I was 10 or 11, I went to a Carman (pronounced Carmen) concert. This is like old-school Christian Contemporary Music, this is like the peak of "Human Videos" and cheesy Christianity. I cringe terribly when I watch this stuff now. They had songs like "Satan, bite the dust", "God, the Standard", "Riot". So I'm there, and they end the concert with a salvation call. It looked like thousands of people were responding, and I remember thinking to myself, "I would love for my life look like this." Like God saying to me, "if you will follow me, thousands will follow me" I don't want you to hear that as me wanting to only draw big crowds or whatever, cuz that's not what it was, it was, for me, a picture of "long obedience in the same direction over a long period of time". It was one of those "God moments" and I say "God moments" meaning these massive moments that transcend space and time. There's so much meaning and depth to those moments. It was a phrase that was also a book. All that happened at a cheesy Carman concert, which, I guess is God laughing at me.

A Praise moment, which may have been mentioned in another interview, would EASILY be Summer Camp 2019. I was leading, we were doing a night on Galatians 5 (Again), and I was teaching that it takes strength to want to live the life that God has asked us to live. It can't be done on your own strength, you need God's help. We had this moment, where we asked you guys not to put lyrics up or anything. We weren't trying to be weird or anything, but we just said, "if you didn't have lyrics, could you overflow in worship?" It was less of a Holy Spirit Crazy Moment and more of me saying, "I'm not going to hold your hand and drag you into worship, if it were only you, is there even anything in you to draw out?"It was in that moment that I felt the Holy Spirit sort of tap me on the shoulder and say, "Tag Aaron in. You don't lead right now, let Aaron lead" So I walked over to Aaron, who had zero clue what I was about to ask him. All I said was, "Hey, you're up, lead it." and he just did it. That's where we get Camp Song from, the "Only you can save us" song. That's such a powerful moment, from a leadership standpoint of passing off leadership to younger leaders and believing in them, but also seeing God move in that moment was crazy. It was a God moment for many of us. It was a God moment that sparked momentum. 

As we talk about your experience in preaching, you've been with Praise for 7 years now, were there ever any unexpected hurdles you had to overcome?

Yeah, (leans close to the mic) Good question. So which time, which month, which day, which hour of struggle are you referencing? *laughs* Pastoring is a series of unexpected hurdles. I've been paid for a while, but I've been volunteering in youth ministry since I was like 11 because I expressed interest to my youth pastor and he told me, "Don't wait for a title, start now". Then my first paid pastoring was when I was a Senior in College getting paid like $400/month to lead a youth group in Billings, Missouri. Shoutout to Adam and Jacque Wray, shoutout to you guys (Those are like the two students I still talk to occasionally, and Meleah, your old name was Crockett, I don't know your new name). I've been in paid youth ministry for 15 years now, you think that would prepare me for some of the hurdles I've faced. There's so much life. I got fired from my first youth pastor job, that was unexpected. God asked me to move across the country to Beaumont, Texas which was unexpected, which was after my second youth pastor job wasn't working out well. Then there were good hurdles because we grew FOUR12 so much that we had to remodel the space, then we couldn't fit in that space anymore, because we would have broken fire code. Those were good hurdles. On the other side, I've had people question my theology. I've had people leave the church because of me and what I teach, and that was very hard. I've had people accuse me of things I didn't do, which eventually did come out as false accusations. That was incredibly difficult, when someone attacks your character. My first hurricane was Harvey, where we lost our church building. I was in the room when one of my camp counselors died at summer camp. Talk about leading a summer camp where there was 400 students, and a camp counselor dies in a room with 14 9th grade boys in the same room. You've been through some of these things with me, I know. That was hard, cuz I did the funeral, I could go on and on. Alix's death, getting that phone call that a teenager passed away in a car accident, that was super hard. Now here we are in 2020, what else can I go through? Now there's a pandemic and racial tensions, but it all got politicized because it's an election year. Trying to lead the church through that is hard. None of that was in Bible College. In the middle of all that, I have the best life, I have the most fulfilling life. Full of joy and peace. It's difficult, but it's incredible. I here these promises of God that he will be with me, but that doesn't mean the absence of storm (to use a pastor cliché), it simply means God's presence in the storm. That has been so true. I wouldn't trade my life for anything. It's such an inexpressible joy. 

So, my final question for you is this: You've worn many different leadership hats throughout your life - or maybe more like different versions of the same kind of hat - but that leads me to ask, how has being a LEADER helped you become a better FOLLOWER of Christ?

That's a good question. (leans into the mic) That's a good question... Ask me again, I was so excited to tell you it was a good question that I blanked on listening. 

How has being a leader helped you become a better follower of Christ?

*inhales deeply* To love somebody and watch them not follow makes me see how much God loves me. I want to follow, I think that's how it's helped me. You can love people and want what is best for them, but I can't make them follow. I see God in that space, because he's not going to violate my free will, but he's doing everything he can to help me and reveal himself to me. In response to who he is and what he's done for me, I want to return that with love and obedience. It's because of his grace that I want to obey. From a leadership perspective, my leadership really is just, I want to serve people, like Jesus served me. I want people to experience the love and the life that Jesus gives. When I see people not doing that it breaks my heart. I look to Jesus and say, "I want to be the type of follower to you that trusts you as a leader."

Well, thank you for spending this time with me, Jimmy I-

Wait! Wait! If this next thing I am about to say does not make the interview, then you aren't allowed to publish any of it. Here's bonus content for everyone that must be transcribed and put in this interview, If it isn't, I will make sure that people know Ethan is a liar and he's not a man of his word. Final segment: my favorite things about Ethan. Just put, "forced by Jimmy or else he wouldn't consent to the interview being published"

(sheepishly) Ok?

I don't understand how you are so smart and so humble at the same time. You are genuinely wise. You're genuinely super duper duper smart. You're probably thinking about some word that means super duper smart, what is it?

Studious or of high Acumen?

Oh, wow, I didn't know either of those, anyway, I've always appreciated your wisdom. Wisdom is not just knowledge, it's applied knowledge and it's from God. Your humility in that is so great. That true heart of wisdom is not being haughty and built-up in yourself, but a heart to seek and to ask questions. I've always really loved that about you. And, making my heart happy is that I get to see a young man who has grown up so faithfully. Long obedience in the same direction. I think that's so awesome to see the ups and downs and all arounds. I've been able to see you grow up in your faith and to see you still here. You've been through all of the different volunteer jobs, internships, etc. now you've got your foot in the door working here part time. For so long you were just volunteering and you were just a part of this family. You kept with it when it is genuinely easier just to go somewhere else. I love that, and that's family to me. I had that original message of "Because of Jesus, we are Family" and you are the picture of what that looks like. We can goof off about how you acted when you were a young guy, and where you're at now. I'm so thankful for you and who you are as a young man. And the official ending of this interview, in classic Ethan fashion if you've ever played any kind of sports with him is in two words accompanied by my hair flip, (yelling) "Y-Oh, Gah!" (you had to be there)

-END-

Thanks so much for reading this interview. I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I did conducting it. If you did enjoy it, consider reading another one of the interviews I've conducted and/ or sharing this one on your social media. I publish every other Monday. I sincerely hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

And to Jimmy and the 8 other people who will understand this reference: Penny Pack!